[IMMUNE] Dishwasher Detergent

[Cyndi Norwitz]

The Trader Joe's brand is very similar to the Seventh Generation brand. In
fact, it may actually be the Seventh Generation brand. TJ's commonly gets
other manufacturers to private label for them.

I've used the Ecover tablets and they work okay but have a very strong
enzyme smell which I don't really do well with. I'm fine with the dishes
after they've been washed.

The Whole Foods brand of detergent is okay but we stopped using it because
it has a lot of orange oil in it and my daughter, who is allergic to
oranges, was reacting to the dishes.

I have not yet tried the Biokleen brand, but I love all the rest of their
products. I am a bit worried about the orange part (my daughter reacts to
their spray cleaner if she touches it when wet and then puts her hand in
her mouth) but that won't affect anyone who doesn't react to citrus.

Whole Foods sells all of the above except for TJ's of course. Wild Oats
would sell all but the other store brands and may have their own. Most
independent HFS and Green grocery stores would have most or all of these.

If you have hard water (which you probably do, Kristine), use Borax in
place of half the detergent. It will make a big difference. Using just
Borax alone doesn't clean well enough. Don't put baking soda in the
dishwasher! Be sure to fill both detergent cups and don't skimp on
detergent, especially if you ahve hard water.

Cyndi
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[Peter Benjamin]

I was not interested in this thread, but read it anyway
hoping to discover something for myself. And I did.
Cyndi's post gave me something to "test" for delayed
brain fog (24 to 48 hours is typical - can be 1 hour or
even 1 week, I understand - all hard to test for unless
one is looking for it explicitly - best detective is me.)

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
I've used the Ecover tablets and they work okay but have a very strong
enzyme smell which I don't really do well with. I'm fine with the dishes
after they've been washed.
The Whole Foods brand of detergent is okay but we stopped using it because
it has a lot of orange oil in it and my daughter, who is allergic to
oranges, was reacting to the dishes.

Even after they were washed? Wow. I did not think I had to worry
about what brand dishwasher soap I used. They get rinsed after all.

I use Cascade (lemon scent) whose dust bothers my nose, like
any dust would, but perhaps I have been having a delayed
reaction of 1 or 2 days??? I've been trying to figure out
my brain fog pattern and related to something for over a
year now. I purchased some 7th Generation 2 weeks ago,
but planned on using up the Cascade first. I'll change
now, and see what I detect. Wondering if in a few weeks
I will be able to see what difference there is.

Hmmm, I've never liked being in the kitchen with the
dishwasher going. Thought it was the noise. But I always
start it, and sometimes continue to work in the kitchen.

But later, when I re-enter the kitchen with it going,
I dislike it, due to the extra moisture in the air I had
thought. But now I will look to "test" at various
stages of the dishwasher cycle, including putting the
dishes away (I'll touch them to my cheek, then try inhaling
them deeply, then lick one, to see what I sense), and test
eating off of them.

I've used paper plates for most dry foods. Recently, I have
wondered if the brand I get is safe. The cheapest at Smart
and Final. A penny a plate.

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
If you have hard water (which you probably do, Kristine), use Borax in
place of half the detergent. It will make a big difference. ...
Be sure to fill both detergent cups and don't skimp on
detergent, especially if you ahve hard water.

The water is very hard here in Los Angeles.
What effects should I observe with Borax added?
Or rather what should I notice is "missing" when
I use it? Less spotting?

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[e***@harmonycedar.com]

Post by Peter Benjamin
Hmmm, I've never liked being in the kitchen with the
dishwasher going. Thought it was the noise. But I always
start it, and sometimes continue to work in the kitchen.

I gave up running my dishwasher due to the nasty odors released by hot
water hitting the plastic interior.

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[e***@rogers.com]

I used Cascade dishwasher detergent for a while when I was less sensitive.
But they changed the formula several years ago, and the "new improved" stuff
made me sick. I couldn't be in the kitchen while the dishwasher was running,
and then I couldn't eat or drink from whatever had been washed. So much for
Cascade.

Next we tried Seventh Generation, but it left a residue on everything. I'm
guessing that hard water had something to do with this. After that we tried
just using Nature Clean powder, but it didn't seem to clean everything. Then
we tried just Ecover, but the smell of two portions of Ecover in the two
soap compartments bothered me.

Currently we use both Ecover tablets in the closing detergent compartment
and Nature Clean powder in the open compartment. This seems to be a
worthwhile compromise for me. I should try experimenting with borax, as the
water in Toronto is very hard.

I am allergic to oranges and don't tolerate the smell of orange oil, so it
is good to learn about products that contain it so I can avoid trying them.

I don't have to worry about bending down to put in the detergent, as my
husband built a cabinet to raise the dishwasher about a foot off the floor.
The cabinet includes a drawer below the dishwasher to use up what would be
wasted space, and that is where we store the unopened boxes of dishwasher
detergent. The open boxes get to clutter the counter, again to reduce my
back pain. I can't really use the chopping board he built into the top of
the cabinet, but that's a trade-off I don't mind.

Hope this helps. Ellen in Toronto, Canada <***@rogers.com>

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[Cyndi Norwitz]

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:29:04 -0700

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
The Whole Foods brand of detergent is okay but we stopped using it
because it has a lot of orange oil in it and my daughter, who is
allergic to oranges, was reacting to the dishes.

Even after they were washed? Wow. I did not think I had to worry about
what brand dishwasher soap I used. They get rinsed after all.

Yes, they get rinsed, but sometimes it takes more rinses than you get.

There are restaurants where I can not drink out of their glasses because of
the perfume smell and taste from the dishwasher detergent. The plates
mostly get rinsed enough, though not always.

When we bought the WF det, my husband asked me if we should worry about the
orange. Nah, I said. It will rinse off. Then Miriam got a ton of
reactions but she wasn't eating oranges. It took a couple weeks to track
this down. Handrinsing the dish before putting her food in it was good
enough. And washing the dishes once in non-orange det made them safe. To
be honest, there may be orange in the det we use now, but it isn't as
strong as the WF, so it's okay (it rinses clean).

I use Cascade (lemon scent) whose dust bothers my nose, like any dust
would, but perhaps I have been having a delayed reaction of 1 or 2
days???

Good lord, Pete, is there any end to all the toxic products you use? Every
couple of months or so I discover a new one. Get rid of the Cascade, it is
nasty stuff. You don't need it.

I've been trying to figure out my brain fog pattern and related to
something for over a year now. I purchased some 7th Generation 2 weeks
ago, but planned on using up the Cascade first. I'll change now, and
see what I detect. Wondering if in a few weeks I will be able to see
what difference there is.

Let us know.

Hmmm, I've never liked being in the kitchen with the dishwasher going.
Thought it was the noise. But I always start it, and sometimes continue
to work in the kitchen.

I have a lot of trouble with some dishwashers when they're on. I can't be
around scented detergents but that isn't an issue in my house. For me, the
big issue is the plastic interiors. I bought one dishwasher in my life
(when I moved to Oakland in the late 90's) and it was plastic inside and I
will never do it again. Stainless steel only from now on. It took about a
year before I could be in the HOUSE while the dishwasher was running, and
another year before I could be in the kitchen.

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
If you have hard water (which you probably do, Kristine), use Borax in
place of half the detergent. It will make a big difference. ... Be
sure to fill both detergent cups and don't skimp on detergent,
especially if you ahve hard water.

The water is very hard here in Los Angeles. What effects should I
observe with Borax added? Or rather what should I notice is "missing"
when I use it? Less spotting?

Better cleaning, less spotting.

Cyndi
_____________________________________________________________________________
Cyndi Norwitz, Administrator for the Immune Lists
***@immuneweb.org -- admin mail personal mail -- ***@tikvah.com
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Tikvah -- products for people with chemical sensitivites
Get the Tikvah Newsletter -- go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TikvahNews/
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[Peter Benjamin]

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
Yes, they get rinsed, but sometimes it takes more rinses than you get.

Might run the dishwasher again without soap then.
I do that with my laundry.

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
There are restaurants where I can not drink out of their glasses because of
the perfume smell and taste from the dishwasher detergent. The plates
mostly get rinsed enough, though not always.
I use Cascade (lemon scent) whose dust bothers my nose, like any dust
would, but perhaps I have been having a delayed reaction of 1 or 2
days???
Good lord, Pete, is there any end to all the toxic products you use?

I've found that making changes can be more dangerous than staying
with what has appeared to work in the past. When I tried 4 different
laundry soaps other than Tide Free, I had bad times. It might be
different now as the mold that was causing me problems are all out-
side now. But since I am using soap and borax now, I see no reason
to change. Soap flakes and borax are so much nicer than any laundry
detergent. I'm not changing.

I do need a recommendation for a source for pure sodium carbonate,
also called washing ash, or soda ash, or disodium carbonate.

Post by Cyndi Norwitz
Every couple of months or so I discover a new one. Get rid of the
Cascade, it is nasty stuff. You don't need it.

I agree.

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[Kristine Kopp]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for all of the idea's for dishwasher
detergents. Yes, I have hard water here in the
south bay. Where do I get the borax?

Thanks again,
Kristine


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[Peter Benjamin]

Post by Kristine Kopp
Where do I get the borax?

The supermarket in the laundry detergent section
at one end of it or the other, usually up high,
in a green box.

Erik writes:
I gave up running my dishwasher due to the nasty odors released by hot
water hitting the plastic interior.

I reply:
Connect the dishwasher to cold water and run it again.
The hot water just makes it more sanitized, and eases
off the grease easier. So, you might have some dishes
left with grease on, either clean those up afterwards,
or do what I do now, and rinse the dishes well enough
before they go in the washer.

Or for warm water ask your hardware store for the
right pipes and valves to mix cold and hot water
going to the dishwasher.

Of course, a stainless steel interior (like Cyndi mentioned
and I will buy my first dishwasher as SS), or enameled...

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[Peter Haynes]

I don't use a dishwasher now, but three years ago we used Electrasol and
I swore the dishes and glasses always had an odour.

No one else could detect it till we switched to Nature Clean dishwasher
soap and the smell went away.

I was also sure that I could taste it in the water.


- --
Peter Haynes
High Park, Ontario

"Four wheels move the body but two wheels move the soul."

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